Lunch & A Divorce Lawyer LIVE with Attorney Peter Olson and Attorney Ben Weaver

THIS MONTH:

This month we're talking real estate made SIMPLE with Attorney Ben Weaver @ 23 Legal. We discuss tips on buying your first home, plus, there was that time he found himself in a client's hospital delivery room. Learn more about Attorney Ben Weaver at: https://23legal.com

Peter: Hello! Welcome to 3rd Thursday, Lunch & A Divorce Lawyer.  I'm attorney Peter Olsen, Chicago Family Law Group.

Thanks again for being here.  I'm so appreciative to have attorney Ben Weaver, A Real Estate and an Estate Planning Attorney in Rolling Meadows Illinois.  Is that at least the first good top line on your bio, been? 

Ben:  Yes, thanks for having me.  I appreciate it.  My name is Ben Weaver and I'm an attorney with 23 Legal in Rolling Meadows.  Primarily, we're focused on residential real estate closings with a little bit of estate planning mixed in there as well but we provide personal, practical and professional legal service throughout Chicago and the suburbs.

Peter:  I think in my 20th year as an attorney, in years like one through six or something, I did a lot of real estates but I haven't touched a closing in probably since 2011 other than a couple of homes I've sold on my own.  I'll tell you that real estate knowledge still comes in handy.  It's just dealing with a messy situation post-divorce recently where it was good to have a little more Real Estate dollars than the average divorce family law attorney. 

I'm not asking your age or something but maybe, how did you end up doing what you're doing in 2022? You can start wherever you want.  When I asked that open question recently on one of these, I think somebody started in junior high, so nothing's off the table in terms of like “hey how did you end up running a small law practice in Rolling Meadows doing a lot of residential real estate?

Ben:  Path to Real Estate definitely didn't start with residential real estate right away.  After college, I was up in Anchorage Alaska and I was working for a law firm.  They did a lot of land use like big in Alaska, big land use development type issues and I just really enjoyed that section of the firm.  So, when I started thinking about law school, I had this idea of real estate, something to do with more commercial, more land use, how things are developed, how they determine the value for a piece of land, that sort of thing.

So, I went to law school, went to Michigan State, and while I was there I worked for the Department of History, Arts and Libraries for the State of Michigan.  I did a lot of work with Estate Tax Credits, and a lot of historical preservation tax-credit issues and just I somehow found myself there again just working real estate and just really enjoying it.  It was late 2000, 2007 and 2008. I'm going to get out of law school, I'm going to work in real estate and then as soon as I graduated in 2009, the bottom fell out.  No one really cared about real estate, no one really cared about lawyers, especially no one cared about a brand-new real estate lawyer. 

So, there I was.  I got a job working for a housing community in Grace Lake and it wasn't a legal job; it was just something I could do working in real estate.  From there, I met some realtors and I started doing closings on the side for the realtors, outside of this housing development.  Eventually, I started my full-time job and it became a part-time job and eventually, I just started doing closings on my own and for the past 10 years now, I've been a residential real estate attorney with a little bit of estate planning helping people with wills, trust, that sort of thing on the side.

Peter:  Is the Chicago area your homeland or how did you end up post-Coast Law School in the northwest suburbs?

Ben:  Good question.  I'm originally from Michigan.  My wife is from the Chicago area.  She grew up in Northbrook, so it was one of those things we're both in graduate school together and it was kind of “whoever got a job first, that was where we'd moved to”, and she ended up getting a job here in Chicago so I took the Illinois Bar and here I am.

Peter:  What part of Michigan are you from originally, just curious?  I'm married to a Yooper.

Ben:  I'm from Grand Rapids.  It's a great place.

Peter:  I'm a fan of that area, it's a nice sized city and you're not that far from the lake.  I like hanging out in Holland once in a while.  I've had some good weekends up in Holland.

So tell me, if you said “hey here's what I really like” or a particular picture in your practice, what do you really like?  What's your favorite deal?  What type of a deal, what side of the deal, maybe what type of property?  Give me a couple of highlights like, “here's the type of stuff I really get my juices flowing and just enjoy.  It is like, “Hey here's my favorite thing, here's my least favorite thing within our practice or something.”

Ben:  I think the biggest thing I enjoy is working with families who are probably either just starting out or moving from that first house into a second house to start home.  They're just very excited about the opportunity, they're just thrilled, they can't believe that they're finally buying this house or they're moving from that cramped condo into their very first one and it's just very exciting for everything.  So, helping those buyers, but at the same time helping when they're selling, when they're moving from that condo, helping them sell that condo and seeing that they're moving up. 

The education is just working with them through the process, they sign the contract, this is what the contract means we go over the terms of the contract, during those first five business days.  They have the home inspection, we go over, what the terms of the home inspection mean, some issues that even though the inspector points it out, it may just be a minor repair or routine maintenance issue that we really can't – the seller really isn't obligated to repair before closing and then just making sure everything that's in track with the loan.  Going throughout the process making sure the lender keeps us updated on how everything is going on so that we can close on time. 

Then when you get to that closing, you've gone through that whole process and seen the buyers at that closing table and they're so excited.  That really makes it for me, it makes it worth it.

Peter:  That's cool, the first time or you are the move-up homebuyers, one of my good friends just bought a place and he had a new baby and stuff, so he was really excited.

What would say, “I'm 23, I've just been renting and stuff and I'm just totally clueless what are some things I should be thinking about as first-time homebuyer that I don't know, might be obvious to you or even to me but somebody who's just totally green as can be, but just knows like “hey I want to buy a place, what are some things they should have in the front of their mind be ready to buy a place?

Maybe a little older, but I just mean just a green, inexperienced person who's maybe amorphous. I'm excited, I want a place but other than that, I don't have a clue.  What are you telling that person when they call you?

Ben:  The big thing mountain to climate is that loan that when you're working with that lender, the lender is working for you.  They definitely want to see you get that loan but at the same time, the paperwork you have to provide to that lender and just because you provide it to someone who emailed you on Monday, someone else might email you on Wednesday and ask for the exact same document and you gotta get that document to them as soon as possible so that they can keep processing the loan. 

Obviously, I think the more times you go through it, you know that's just the loan process but that first time when you're going through it and it's just so overwhelming, all the documents, all the bank account statements and credit card statements you provide and provide again and then they say “Oh last month's statements have already expired, we need you to send in the new statements.  Aside from that just the home inspection as well.  Once you've owned a house, you're more accustomed to doing the home maintenance on it and but with that first time you actually look at a house and you're there with the inspector and they're going up in the attic, they're going the crawl space and they're pointing out all the parts of the house you never go into.  Definitely make sure that you know all these things are issues that can be addressed either through the seller or there's something that is easy to do as a homeowner after closing it. 

No matter what the condition of the house is today, it's gonna continue to require maintenance in the future and is just something you have to get used to.

Peter:  What kind of down payment percentages are people paying these days? If I'm that first-time home buyer, what minimum down payments are required, what's the typical average you're seeing in your deals that people are putting down?

Ben:  The good news is that a lot of people have 20% stuck in their head and that there are definitely tons of different loan packages out there that do not require 20%. You can get an FHA loan for as low as 3.5% down and various other types of loans. Basically 5% down, 10% down all the time, it doesn't necessarily have to be 20% in the house.

Peter: In some of the military programs, you can still do a 0% down payment.

Ben:  With the VA program, it's 0, that's amazing especially when you get to the closing and the buyer gets a check back from the lender because of all the tax credits and everything gets mixed up. 

Peter:  Yes, way back, I think that was pretty common before the bubble burst.  Actually one of the attorneys who worked at our firm I know, he's ex-military and I believe he went that route, I guess why not.  I mean there might be a few reasons, why not then?

Ben:  It's a great program, definitely if you qualify, go for it.

Peter:  If I said one or two great moves to make as a perspective like a buyer that you would recommend or something maybe it's the opposite of the same question.  What are good moves that people make that maybe you don't see everybody making and conversely like really stupid things you see people doing as prospective buyers that they should be doing? 

That's an artful question, just try to ask what's the best way to approach a deal and what are some common mistakes?

Ben:  I think the best approach is when you're purchasing this house, you commit to the house and treat that house as your number one priority, so for that month or two months however long it is, you don't get sidetracked.  As a real estate attorney, hear all the horror stories and you see it happen in real-time where people go out and they'll buy a car and in two weeks before closing, all of a sudden, they can't get the loan because they've ruined their financing.  Another example and more relatable to buying a house are going out and purchasing a lot of new furniture on credit, taking a new credit card for that.  I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier, but just make sure that when the lender asks for paperwork, you get that paperwork to the lender right away, you don't put it off, you don't say, “Oh I'm tired tonight, I'll send it in the morning.”

You gotta keep working with that lender get everything done ASAP, make sure things keep processing because from signing the contract to closing usually takes anywhere from one month to two months and the big reason for that time period is there are some things are seller has to work with the title company and they have to provide a survey that sort of things, but the big thing that takes up all the time in that process is the loan.  If you delay the loan, it's just going to take more time and then everyone gets frustrated.  The last thing is you have to answer to an angry seller why you couldn't close on time because you didn't pay attention to the loan.

Peter:  What percentage of deals.  I'm just thinking of what I would consider a stupid thing to do, are you seeing where somebody's not doing a home inspection.

Ben:  Rarely.  About a month or month and a half ago, maybe in March of 2022, the market was absolutely crazy and that's where I started seeing those inspection waivers and escalation clauses and things have backed off a bit.  You still have people buying houses as-is, but at least when you purchase a house as-is, you still have the opportunity to inspect the house versus completely waiving the inspection altogether.  It does happen, and like I said we're just a month or two away from it being super crazy and people agreeing to those terms.

Peter:  Like the idea of maybe still doing the inspection but you use the verbiage where you maybe you can't ask for credits and stuff but still the right thing to get out of the deal if it came back.  We sold a condominium in the near northwest suburbs, we ended up closing in August or September.  That was a very new experience, you thought of what a strong seller's market it was.  It was still pretty juicy.  We had two offers follow through and then the final one went through.  I remember they actually did not do an inspection, it was a condominium, I think that is a little more common in a condo situation, maybe to waive the inspection but totally sidebar. My big takeaway from our sale was that everybody wanted hardwood floors these days.  That was my biggest takeaway from our entire process.  Part of our home was carpeted and everybody wanted hardwood floors.  We probably should have just done that at the front end of it.

Ben:  Yes, one of those things two years from now, everyone wants carpet again.

Peter:  What is the quick picture of “2022 real estate year so far, what's the summary paragraph on it?”  How has it been and what tips going forward for prospective buyers or sellers?

Ben:  Right now, the year as a whole has been very busy, with a lot of people looking to buy and sell houses.  There was definitely a lot of excitement in the market, maybe March and April.  It's kind of died down now.  People are still very interested in moving, I think there are still a lot of younger millennial-age families who are in a cramped condo or a cramped house, they need to move on to something else, but at the same time the interest rates are going up and everyone's very worried about inflation, so those things are slowing things down a bit. 

At the beginning of the year, there were a lot of buyers very interested and there wasn't much on the market.  Then the sellers caught up and things sold very quickly and now it's kind of evened out a little bit, very standard springtime.  A lot of houses are for sale and there are a lot of buyers out there and things are moving along.  Everyone has an eye to interest rates, everyone's very nervous about what's going to happen with that and again inflation, but Real Estates are good investment if you're worried about inflation too.

Peter:  Let me ask you this as a person whose practice is only divorce and child custody cases, has any family law issue come across your plate recently.  I'm not asking you, are you working in the divorce area but I mean have you had any sort of tangential to a family law case selling-buying, just a funny war story or two that you could share? 

Ben:  This is a not so much family law but a good family story where I was helping someone sell a house a year or so ago and they ended up, right before the closing, right before we're going to sign all the deed and the other closing paperwork, she went to labor, so we had to send paperwork ASAP.  The next thing, I knew I was in the waiting room at the hospital and I ended up going up to the delivery room to sign the paperwork last-second quickly.  They pushed me out of the room at the last second but it was a very interesting experience.  A lot of times when I work with couples who are divorcing though, I find that it's not so much an interesting story but I find that I'm a good mediator that each party is working with, the divorce is ongoing and they have to sell the house and I feel that I have a good temperament to act as a buffer between the two parties work with the husband and wife but also the divorce attorneys to make sure that everything goes as smoothly as possible so we can sell the property and disperse the funds according to either hold them in escrow or disperse the funds according to the court order or the parties agreement.

Peter:  That sounds like a way you can be very constructive in that role, a voice of reason or mediator type role for sure.  I wish more family law attorneys had a lighter temperament because I feel like some of those have personality temperament issues.  I feel like you drive a lot, it doesn't have to be that dramatic.  There's actually quite a bit of win-win possibility in family law and clearly selling the home can and should be.  Sometimes it's like the hammer and nail, if there's a nail, you're gonna be a hammer or something even though.  There aren't that many issues in family law that need to be that contest, but I could go way down that road.  I've learned a lot, even recently doing some of these calls on family law or related real estate. 

Some of the ways that child support and spousal support are viewed by the lenders, I've really gotten some interesting stuff on that, like how it needs to be running for six months before it can be included as somebody's income for purposes of loan qualification.  I feel like sometimes somebody would have to refinance in three months or something but if they're getting that child support, it really needs to be out a little farther to capture a little bit more income to get approved on the mortgage.

I was looking out at your YouTube channel, which looks pretty strong actually.  I'm impressed.  We spent a little time on our YouTube channel too.  You have these funny videos about how to buy a home in 17 different suburbs from places like Morton Grove to Des Plaines to Schaumburg.  I think Schaumburg had the most views, so I don't know if you have the most deals in Schaumburg or what?  I feel like in the general near northwest suburbs, it probably is the largest suburb.

Working through that community acts, which is the easiest to do a deal, do a sale through or most difficult by the municipality?  I don't need a ranking of all 17. 

Ben:  I think a lot hinges on the final water meter reading, so in suburbs like Schaumburg or Buffalo Grove where they have the technology, they can just look it up at the office.  It's great, you just show up with the paperwork, you pay for the stamp and it's done.  In some other suburbs though you have physically go out to the house and take a water meter reading, so they need a week's notice to get it together and it just adds up and it just adds a lot of stress especially if it's a situation where the closing comes down to the wire, maybe the loan isn't quite ready and then we get to clear to close on Monday and everyone wants to close on Wednesday and then you contact and say “okay we need that final water meter reading and then the biller says, “Oh no, we need a week's notice to do that.”  So, it slows everything down.

Peter:  So, I won't ask you for the worst because you might need a favor from the water person in the next suburb, but that's interesting to say that Buffalo Grove and Schaumburg.  Here's one of the biggest reasons I got out of doing real estate closings, it was my second job out of law school.  I was like this associate attorney doing a ton of deals and but what I hated doing, I would like to go to different villages to get the transfer stamps and I was like, “Is this my life.” I'm hoping that's not really happening that much anymore, but it was 15 years ago.  I would be like “hey, stop over at this village to get the transfer stamps for these deals.”

Tell me about your ideal client and somebody who should contact you and how and where they can find you, Ben?

Ben:  Check out the website www.23legal.com and thanks for the plug but our YouTube channel is www.youtube.com/23legal, the best way to find us.  Just always been interested in helping people throughout the Chicago area, one of the parts to that, I really enjoy about being a real estate lawyer is going to the closing, so I love the day when I have a closing and gurney in the morning in Naperville in the afternoon and I'm driving here and there and all over the place.  So, happy to help people throughout Chicago and the suburbs. 

After we talk here, I'm in Rolling Meadows right now but I'm gonna go to Skokie for closing, so I'm all over the place.  Always happy to talk to people if you're buying or selling a house throughout Chicago, give me a call.

Peter:  Thanks again for joining us, Ben.  I'll surely think of you with my perspective, I added you to my business partner list because we definitely need those referrals, particularly on the sales side but otherwise, because I feel like maybe like real estate, immigration and bankruptcy, I feel like are my most like common tangential to family law issues that I need to help with or a client needs help with that we're certainly not practicing indirectly. 

Thanks again, be well.

Ben:  Thanks for inviting me, this is a great experience, enjoyed it…